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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:05, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oliver Tomlinson

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Oliver Tomlinson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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fails WP:NFOOTY and WP:GNG - I would suggest moving this to draftspace Microwave Anarchist (talk) 23:45, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of Shining Time Station episodes#Christmas Special (1990). Eddie891 Talk Work 00:59, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Shining Time Station: 'Tis a Gift

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Shining Time Station: 'Tis a Gift (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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Doesn't look to be notable. TVguide is reliable, but doesn't give significant coverage. This is also reliable, but is rather bare. here is a brief newspaper piece, but it's just a plot summary. Only two sentences there. One paragraph in a Billboard video preview. Beyond that, I'm mostly justing finding TV listings. Fails WP:NFILM and WP:GNG; it's more TTTE cruft, this time a holiday special. Ringo Starr's presence cannot make this notable. Hog Farm Bacon 23:03, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Shining Time Station.TH1980 (talk) 02:21, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Clear consensus to delete. One suggestion for merge, but as the content is unsourced, that would not really be a suitable ATD so I am closing as straight delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:05, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Diesel (fictional locomotive)

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Diesel (fictional locomotive) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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I'm not finding coverage for this fictional character outside of wikis, sundry other user-generated sources, blogs, toy sales sites, and primary sources. Previously redirect to List of characters in The Railway Series back in August, this was later reverted in September by Shhhnotsoloud with the statement that the redirection caused problems with redirects and context at the target. Was earlier prodded by Piotrus, deprod was done the next day by Necrothesp as "too iconic for prodding". Well, since PROD and redirection have both been objected to, and a merge is not a great idea, given that the sole inline citations is to an unreliable source, so the content in not verified at the moment, we go here to AFD. I'm not seeing a WP:GNG pass here. Hog Farm Bacon 22:47, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. TheSandDoctor Talk 07:11, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Voices of Hope

[edit]
Voices of Hope (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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This page appears to have previously been about a book, which was then re-directed and some text about a South-African nonprofit has been added. There has been no attempt to establish the notability of this organisation, and I have not found anything remotely like significant coverage. JohnmgKing (talk) 22:46, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Moot. Moved to template space. A WP:MFD would be needed to delete it if it is considered problematic there. Sandstein 09:50, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Street grid of landmarks in the 19th-century Los Angeles business district

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Street grid of landmarks in the 19th-century Los Angeles business district (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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Wikipedia is WP:NOT a map. power~enwiki (π, ν) 20:28, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete Indeed a vector graphic with hyperlinks or something of the sort would be needed. A grid of streets just doesn't work in a wikitable; I'm sorry, the half-bounded intersections and cramped vertical text look poor and unusable even in template space, with cell sizes determined by the amount of text rather than geographic scale. Reywas92Talk 23:22, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages because they are the same format:

Street grid of landmarks in the Historic Core, Los Angeles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
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The result was keep. Vanamonde (Talk) 23:54, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pichenotte

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Pichenotte (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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Non notable game, unsourced for 13 years, can't find any independent in-depth coverage. Theroadislong (talk) 08:21, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: WP:WikiProject Cue sports has been notified of this discussion.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:29, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I looked too, and could find none, either. A non-notable game (in terms of Wikipedia) - I'm sure it's fun to play, though. Nick Moyes (talk) 18:36, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I didn't find any WP:GNG sources either, though I found one for Pitchnut I put in that article, so it has one ref now. I wonder if it would be a good idea to merge some of these articles for similar games into one artice, see Category:Disk-flicking games, Football-style. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:18, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Football is essentially a set-index for things that also have their own articles, plus a history-of-their-origins piece, so I'm not sure that's a good analogy. That said, it might still be reasonable to merge some of these games into one article, at least the ones that are clearly directly related to each other, like pichenotte, pitchnut, and crokinole. At a guess, I would think crokinole is the WP:COMMONNAME. I saw (via the manufacturer site https://www.pichenotte.com/history-2/ ) that in Canada the terms are sometimes treated as essentially synonymous and divided primarily on a regional/linguistic basis, though actual rule sets and even board types vary. That is, the games generally can in fact be distinguished, even if the terms are also used more broadly. It's similar to "billiards" which can refer to a family of games or to a very specific game, depending on where you are from and what the context is (e.g., if you are British or Australian, "billiards" usually means English billiards, and if you're American there's a good chance it means pool, broadly, but there's also a good chance (especially if you're a player) that it means carom billiards instead, or you might mean all such games as a class, depending how you use the word). There's a similar usage crossover/conflict here, where one writer may mean "pichenotte, a specific game, with a square board, mostly played in Quebec", etc., while another may mean "pichenotte/pitchnut/crokinole, a cluster of games played with discs, on boards of various shapes, with varying rule sets".  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:01, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, pending better WP:BEFORE. No one appears to have checked obvious sources like boardgame books, Quebec folkways books, etc. Not every subject's notability can be determined by perfunctory WP:GOOGLE stabbing-in-the-dark. Not every subject is covered by current news reports or journal articles, much less online ones, but that does not mean there is no significant coverage in reliable sources. Also, how much effort has been put into looking through French-language sources (cf. WP:BIAS)? As noted above, I'm not entirely opposed to a merger.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:01, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and improve. I haven't found good enough sources, but that's mostly because my French is poor. Found mentions in these books: [2], [3]. This game isn't some passing fad or internet sensation, and I feel confident that it's a significant part of Quebecois / Acadian / Franco-Canadian culture. If I'm wrong about expanding this, there's enough verifiable here that it should be merged to a suitable target. Archrogue (talk) 20:16, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I assume everyone found [5], it seems hugely relevant. I'm not certain this should be an article, it might be better off as a redirect? Hobit (talk) 08:56, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This from Tavistock Times Gazette (?) seems somewhat WP:RS, and I think it supports the argument for a Merge with crokinole, and maybe a few others should be merged there too. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:07, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I find myself remarkably unclear on whether there's any actual difference between pichenotte and pitchnut, or whether they're really just French and English names for the same thing. Having an answer to that question would certainly help me make a more informed decision one way or the other, because "redirect to pitchnut" isn't quite off the menu yet. Bearcat (talk) 22:31, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • October 5, 2020 To the Editors from DVQuebec
Edit requests like the following should be posted on article talk pages. See below post for more details.

I have CONFLICT OF INTEREST as owner of www.pichenotte.com and I own the US Trademark for PICHENOTTE and a PAID hobby of making pichenotte boards, I will defer to other editors to correct, amend and edit the entry for pichenotte to provide accuracy and inclusiveness.

MY SUGGESTED ADDITIONS, CHANGES AND REFERENCES/ CITATIONS FOR PICHENOTTE

Pichenotte is a French word derived from pichenette which means 'flick'. [1] [2]

Pichenotte is a United States Trademark [3] [4]

The Quebec Museum of Civilisation [5] 'aka' Musee de la Civilisation de Quebec [6] has two collection exhibits for the game of 'pichenotte'.

The round board at the Canadian Quebec Museum of Civilisation [7]

The square board at the Canadian Quebec Museum of Civilisation[8]

- On the square board, the edges of the playing surface are bounded by raised wooden sides. The object of the game is to strike a wooden disc such that it contacts lighter discs and propels them into one of four corner pockets. These pockets are usually larger than those on Indian carrom boards. The playing pieces come in two colors denoting the two players (or teams, in doubles play). An additional piece is colored red (or other unique color) and called the "queen" or "king".

- On the round board, the playing surface is raised above the floor of the board and is surrounded by a ditch enclosed with an octagonal or round wall. The board is divided into four quadrants with three scoring zones made up of three concentric circles and one center hole. Eight posts, positioned equally around the innermost scoring circle line, surround the center hole. The object of the game is to knock your opponent's pucks from the board while keeping your own on the board.

- The aim of the square game is to sink one's eleven pieces before the opponent sinks theirs. However before sinking one's final piece, the queen must be pocketed and "covered" by pocketing one of one's own pieces on the same or a subsequent shot. Fouls, such as crossing the diagonal lines on the board with any part of one's body, or scratching (pocketing the striker or sending it off the board), lead to one of one's pieces being returned to the board.

- The aim of the round game is to score as many points as possible, while limiting those of your opponent. At the end of play, all pucks left on the board are counted (according to their position in each of the three scoring zones) and added to any pucks that came to rest in the center hole (these are removed from the board). Many variations of the rules exist.

Rules for Round Pichenotte World Crokinole Championship[9] Pichenotte Dot Com[10]

Rules for Square Pichenotte - Quebec Association of Pichenotte Players [11]


The round game also has other names, which does cause confusion, such as:

French: Croquignole flick, biscuit, bun [12]

English: Crokinole - Anglicized form of the French Croquignole [13] [14]

German: KnipsBrat - the flicking board [15]

The word pichenotte is used liberally to describe other games that include the action of flicking. Such as Pichenotte Hockey [16]

There seems to be no book references to the square or round game of pichenotte, however, there is an important book about the round game aka crokinole called The Crokinole Book by Wayne Kelly[17] Publisher: 1st Edition: Boston Mills Press, Erin, Ontario, Canada 2nd Edition: Stoddart Publishing Co. Limited, Toronto, Ontario, Canada Revised Third Edition: Self Published by Wayne Kelly 1988, 1999, 2012 ISBN: 0-919783-83-X 1. Crokinole (game) I. Title GV1312 K44 1988 794 C88-093933-8

There are newspaper articles about pichenotte tournaments and events in Santa Fe, New Mexico:

1) Tavistock Gazette September 27, 2020 [18]

2) Santa Fe New Mexican October 27, 1998 [19]

3) Santa Fe New Mexican December 19, 1999 [20]

4) The Albuquerque Journal August 10, 1999 [21]

There are many webpages confirming the common knowledge that pichenotte also refers to the round game Round Pichenotte_1[22] Round Pichenotte_2[23] Round Pichenotte_3[24] Round Pichenotte_4[25] Round Pichenotte_5[26] Round Pichenotte_6[27] scroll to the end of this page [28]


Let's look at some round pichenotte boards for sale on the web:

Round Pichenotte_7[29] Round Pichenotte_8[30] Round Pichenotte_9[31] Round Pichenotte_10[32] Round Pichenotte_11[33] Round Pichenotte_12ef>https://offerup.com/item/detail/854976201/</ref>

Let's look at some pichenotte tournament photos from New Mexico [34]

Friend and Family Playing Pichenotte Photos [35]



See also www.pichenotte.com

[36]Book ReferencesBold text (even though no mention is made of Pichenotte) The Crokinole Book by Wayne Kelly[37] Publisher: 1st Edition: Boston Mills Press, Erin, Ontario, Canada 2nd Edition: Stoddart Publishing Co. Limited, Toronto, Ontario, Canada Revised Third Edition: Self Published by Wayne Kelly 1988, 1999, 2012 ISBN: 0-919783-83-X 1. Crokinole (game) I. Title GV1312 K44 1988 794 C88-093933-

Pichenotte is often used as a pet name for dogs or cats Pichenotte Pet_1[38] Pichenotte Pet_1[39]

I have reached out several times to the representatives of the square game, both FQJR (Federation Quebec de Jeux Recreations [40] and AJQP Association de Jeux Quebec aux Pichenotte [41] in Quebec about their games and rules and inquired about who makes them, but they have never replied to my phone calls or emails.

Items to consider for changing:

2) The current entry for pichenotte states without reference: "The term is sometimes also mistakenly used as the actual name of other games of this class, such as carrom and crokinole."

Who is the authority to be cited ? Who is pronouncing this judgment ? and to what purpose ?

3) The current entry for pichenotte states: "While the specifics are uncertain, pichenotte certainly must have originated from the Indian game carrom. In the mid-19th century, carrom was likely brought to Canada by Indian or British immigrants."

It could be stated more correctly that 'perhaps' or 'probably' or 'likely' pichenotte originated from the Indian game of carrom.

4) The current entry for pichenotte states: " Another variant of the game called pitchnut" without a reference. The reference is [42]

items to consider for adding:

1) What millions of Quebec residents know, is that the word pichenotte refers to many games involving a flicking action. They use the word instead of carroms, crokinole, and croquignole. They play pichenotte hockey, pichenotte football, and when they flick each other on the nose or the head, they say they are giving a pichenotte. Pichenotte is a common name for animal pets such as dogs, cats, and birds.


From The Crokinole Book by Wayne Kelly First Edition [[6]] "Origins of the name'' The name "crokinole" derives from croquignole, a French word today designating: in France, a kind of cookie (or biscuit in British English),[9] similar to a biscotto; in French Canada, a pastry somewhat similar to a doughnut (except for the shape).[11]

It also used to designate the action of flicking with the finger (Molière, Le malade imaginaire; or Voltaire, Lettre à Frédéric II Roi de Prusse; etc.), and this seems the most likely origin of the name of the game. Croquignole was also a synonym of pichenotte, a word that gave its name to the different but related games of pichenotte and pitchnut. Crokinole is called knipsbrat ('flick-board') (and occasionally knipsdesh (flick-table)) in the Plautdietsch spoken by Russian Mennonites."

Wayne Kelly states on page 21 of First Edition of The Crokinole Book [43] " It is outstanding unusual that, in an age when countless trillions of words have been cranked off the press concerning subjects....next to nothing has been written about a highly popular social activity such as crokinole".

page 22 " ...with regard to all responses and photographs received from museums, archives, historical societies and individuals polled from coast to coast....none added information as to the origin of the game."

The Crokinole Book by Wayne Kelly ISBN: 0-919783-83-X Third Edition: ( spiral bound) [44]

pg 41 "Similar to the search for crokinole history, a surprising lack of information about the game of carrom was positively the rule back in 1987 - at least here in North America. Happily, that void is now being addressed by several diligent researchers, historians, and game aficionados."

pg 49 " Great variety has existed in the size, shape and weight of the simple crokinole board." "The early octagonal boards (my personal favorite) weighed close to 11 pounds..." " Round boards, too, have had great popularity." " Round boards have the tendency to show up in specific geographic regions....in Waterloo and Wellington counties of Ontario and in various communities across Quebec"

pg 59

" The designs and dimensions of crokinole boards seems as varied as the men who turned a hand at making them".


DVQuebec adds: Surely, Crokinole players the world over, owe a great debt of gratitude to Wayne Kelly, now deceased [45] although his son Caleb is carrying the torch as 'Son of Crokinole at [46]

.........................

References

  1. ^ https://www.wordsense.eu/pichenotte/
  2. ^ https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pichenotte
  3. ^ https://www.pichenotte.com/pichenotte-trademark/
  4. ^ http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/
  5. ^ https://www.mcq.org/en/
  6. ^ https://www.mcq.org/en/
  7. ^ https://collections.mcq.org/objets/76963
  8. ^ https://collections.mcq.org/objets/81406
  9. ^ http://www.worldcrokinole.com/thegame.html
  10. ^ https://www.pichenotte.com/tournament-rules-dec-2018/
  11. ^ https://web.archive.org/web/20111107033543/http://www.fqjr.qc.ca/pichenot/fr/regles.html
  12. ^ <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/croquignole>
  13. ^ https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=pichenotte+crokinole&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%7D&ns0=1&ns6=1&ns12=1&ns14=1&ns100=1&ns106=1#/media/File:A425C._piche_vs_croke1.jpg
  14. ^ https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=pichenotte+crokinole&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%7D&ns0=1&ns6=1&ns12=1&ns14=1&ns100=1&ns106=1#/media/File:A425C._piche_vs_croke1.jpg
  15. ^ http://knipsbrat.com/pichenotte.html
  16. ^ https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/246571/pichenotte-hockey
  17. ^ https://crokinole.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/book1-b.jpg
  18. ^ https://www.pichenotte.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Gazette_08_26_20_FINAL-5.pdf
  19. ^ http://www.pichenotte.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/border_100_mall_pdf_1.pdf
  20. ^ http://www.pichenotte.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/border_100_second_st_pdf_7.pdf
  21. ^ http://www.pichenotte.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/border_100_albq_journ_jpg_2.pdf
  22. ^ https://www.picuki.com/tag/pichenottegame
  23. ^ https://www.picuki.com/media/1970147651362463394
  24. ^ https://www.picuki.com/media/1418510301346793730
  25. ^ https://www.picuki.com/media/1527995846694851666
  26. ^ https://www.picuki.com/media/1524870362437054634
  27. ^ https://www.picuki.com/media/945886142124624677
  28. ^ http://www.worldcrokinole.com/photos2015.html
  29. ^ https://www.facebook.com/lejouetantique/photos/jeu-de-pichenotte-tout-fait-de-bois/1428302400753132/
  30. ^ https://www.varagesale.com/i/7hpwtwha-jeu-de-pichenotte
  31. ^ https://www.ebay.com/itm/193407221347?ViewItem=&item=193407221347
  32. ^ https://www.varagesale.com/i/rxwq6xve-crokinole-board-jeu-de-pichenotte
  33. ^ https://encanrivenord.hibid.com/lot/80051-103016-6198/jeu-de-pichenotte-vintage/
  34. ^ https://www.pichenotte.com/photo-gallery-three/
  35. ^ https://www.pichenotte.com/photo-gallery-three/
  36. ^ Kelly, Wayne. The Crokinole Book (first edition). Erin, Ontario, Canada: Boston Mills. ISBN 0-919783-83-X.
  37. ^ https://crokinole.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/book1-b.jpg
  38. ^ https://www.picuki.com/profile/pichenotte_
  39. ^ https://www.picuki.com/profile/princesse_pichenotte
  40. ^ http://www.quebecjeux.org/portfolio/pichenottes/
  41. ^ http://pichenottes.quebecjeux.org/fr/http://pichenottes.quebecjeux.org/fr/
  42. ^ https://pitchnut.com/#
  43. ^ https://crokinole.com/index.php/products/
  44. ^ https://crokinole.com/index.php/products/
  45. ^ https://worldcrokinole.com/kelly.html
  46. ^ www.crokinole.com

Signed:

ThreeVictors (talk) 04:05, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 20:25, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This game is/was ubiquitous in French Canada. There is very likely literature on it. In looking I found a scholarly article on games played by older adults that has a section dedicated to it. [7] As the game is played by older folks, and is decreasing in popularity, I'm thinking that most information about it will be found offline, but should be easily found in books about French Canadian culture. Acebulf (talk) 01:10, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
* The Musée de la civilization du Québec has/had an exhibit on it. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to reach out to them. They likely have very strong sourcing. Acebulf (talk) 01:24, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Spartaz Humbug! 15:17, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Lückner

[edit]
Michael Lückner (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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WP:BEFORE shows only user generated sources, the sourcing in the article is weak. The subject fails notability guidelines. Less Unless (talk) 20:00, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi. I created this article a good while ago but to be honest, I'm still not very familiar with the notability guidelines for musicians as I mostly edit footballer articles. I've fleshed out the article a bit with reviews from decent sources. Are the reviews sufficient to demonstrate notability, @Less Unless:? Robby.is.on (talk) 22:08, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Robby.is.on ! I have looked at the sources you have provided, however to me there's still not enough significant coverage even though there are 2-3 reliable sources. The mentions are rather passing. I still consider the article should be deleted. Sorry. Best, Less Unless (talk) 09:02, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your reply, @Less Unless:. I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you mean by "passing" mentions. All of the sources are about the artist's Tokyo album and pretty much nothing else. Kind regards, Robby.is.on (talk) 22:40, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Robby.is.on, you are right, the articles talk about this album, but what do they say about the artist? In my opinion, there's not much information about him and he is frequently mentioned in connection to My Bloody Valentine which he was inspired by composing another album. To me that might be the reason he is mentioned in the English media. However, this is only my opinion, I respect if you and other disagree. Best, Less Unless (talk) 08:36, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy delete. The article was speedy deleted by Jimfbleak for A7 (lack of a claim of significance) and G12 (copyviolation) (non-admin closure) Atlantic306 (talk) 22:20, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Madhur The Band

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NBAND Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:25, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Creating a redirect after the topic is covered in the target article is optional. Sandstein 11:12, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Priyappetta mammootty

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No notability asserted, nor verified. Pure promotion. No discussion evident on the merge proposal, which thus fails WP:GNG and has for years. Time to consign it to the deleted non notable stub bin Fiddle Faddle 19:13, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 15:07, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Munni Saha

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See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Munni Saha. There does not appear to be any information in this article that would not have been in the deleted article, because this article states only that she is a Bangladeshi journalist, and the AFD states that she is a journalist. Google search shows that she exists and she is a Bangladeshi journalist. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:50, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. TheSandDoctor Talk 07:12, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jaya Vaidhyanathan

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Fails WP:GNG. Notability is not inherited to CEOs of WP:CORP. winners of some obscure corporate awards are not notable. ChunnuBhai (talk) 18:01, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:06, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ponderosa Basin, California

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Another GNIS screwup. Does not appear on topographic maps, the coordinates show a small localized depression near a spring. I'm finding newspapers.com hits for "the Ponderosa Basin" and a few real estate listings. This makes it clear that it's a subdivision. I'm also finding a few name drops for Ponderosa Basin chapel, which is in the area, but has a postal code for Mariposa, indicating that this likely doesn't have a PO. Looks to be a minor geographic feature where a subdivision was later built. Probably too minor to pass WP:GEOLAND as a small basin with little recorded history; the subdivision also fails WP:GEOLAND, GNG is not met. Hog Farm Bacon 17:48, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Sandstein 15:43, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Chicha press

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Article does not meet WP:NPOV and has not one single citation to verify its claims. Also the article seems to be biased towards a certain president. 7falcon23 (talk) 16:58, 9 October 2020 (UTC) Creating deletion discussion for Chicha press[reply]

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  • Delay While this article clearly fits deletion criteria for both unsourced claims and NPOV, I think it might be salvageable. I will work on it some today to see what can be done. Jmbranum (talk) 17:27, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to John Carl Buechler. Spartaz Humbug! 15:18, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Light in the Forest

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Non notable film, tagged since 2009 for notability. Nothing found in a WP:BEFORE search to help it pass WP:NFILM. Donaldd23 (talk) 00:05, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Redirect to John Carl Buechler, where it is already listed in his Filmography. I would not really count the Dove review as helping to pass WP:NFILM or the WP:GNG - outside of a synopsis, their actual review is only two sentences long. So, that really only leaves the McFarland book, which alone is not enough. However, since the film is listed on the director's filmography, a redirect there seems like a reasonable WP:ATD. Rorshacma (talk) 23:49, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Spartaz Humbug! 15:25, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Beech Grove, Fulton County, Kentucky

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Looks spurious. GNIS is sourced to the Rennick place names file, but Rennick states that Beech Grove was a site where one Mr. Watson donated land for a small school and Methodist church. A county history talks about a Beech Grove school, but no community. The pre-GNIS topos always call it "Beech Grove Church" or "Beech Grove Cemetery." I have seen no evidence that this was any more than a church and one room schoolhouse, so it appears to fail WP:GEOLAND. I'm willing to be proved wrong, especially since searching is complicated by the fact that there are four Beech Groves in Kentucky. Hog Farm Bacon 23:25, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Comment: LOL, you think there's four Beech Groves in Kentucky? How about eleven "Beech Grove Schools"! none of which are in Fulton County. Checking google maps with the coordinates 36.516667, -89.240556 (from the wiki article) shows you an intersection of Beech Grove Rd and state route KY-925, with Beech Grove Church at that intersection. The moment you try to "get directions" and type any character, the notation "Fulton County School District" appears. However, FCSD has all of their schools on a single campus in Hickman, the nearest town 7 miles away. So it's quite possible that there was a school there once. I even checked google and Facebook for anything called "Beech Grove Church" or "Beech Grove United Methodist Church" and I get nothing. I checked the property records for the county for Beech Grove Rd and State Route 925 (just type "925") and there's no property owned by a church name or school name; everything is in the name of an individual. So... since I know a bit about Kentucky culture, this "intersection" and some old school and old church were probably locally known as "Beech Grove" a long time ago ("Go several miles until you get to Beech Grove and make a left"), but there's not much there today and I doubt there was anything "notable" about this area. Normal Op (talk) 01:14, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Delete Well duh new citiations could help it pass notability, but you need to actually provide them! No indication this is a notable place, that it is legally recognized, or that there is signifcant coverage to pass GEOLAND. People living on the same street and a church sharing the name of the road does not make the neighborhood a notable community. I found no newspapers.com results about the Fulton County place. Reywas92Talk 20:12, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The reason this place has an article is because of it's supposed status as an unincorporated community, which are presumed notable in WP:GEOLAND. It would appear that assigning it this status was erroneous however, the source of this claim is GNIS, who in turn cite Rennick, who claims it to be the site of a church and 1 room school, not a settlement. I have searched for any sources to support the existence of a settlement called Beech Grove in Fulford County but have been unable to find anything.
Since the settlement does not seem to exist we must instead interpret the notability of the school and the church. Per WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES schools are generally not presumed notable simply because they exist and require a claim to notability and sources to support it, I have been unable to locate either for this school. As far as I am aware we do not have a specific notability guideline for church buildings, so it must instead pass WP:GNG or WP:NBUILDING, both of which require significant coverage by third party sources. I have been unable to find any coverage of this church outside of directory listings and passing mentions in some announcements and various genealogy sources, so it would appear that this notability guideline is also not met. 86.23.86.239 (talk) 21:04, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:29, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hermione Thompson

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Hermione Thompson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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(not quite an author, but author-related, hence the categorisation)

I can't discern sufficient notability for this editor. Sources are a press release[1], a self-written blurb[2], an uncritical interview[3], and - the best of the lot - an also-about-her article in Publishers Weekly[4]. I don't think that does in terms of WP:GNG (and I'm not sure what SNG would apply). -- Elmidae (talk • contribs) 00:23, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Thompson made editor at Hamish Hamilton". The Bookseller. 7 March 2019.
  2. ^ "Hermione Thompson". Penguin.
  3. ^ "Hermione Thompson talks about The Water Cure". Penguin. 30 August 2018.
  4. ^ "Three Editors In Three Countries Made 'The Water Cure' What It Is". Publishers Weekly. 14 December 2018.
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  • Delete a non-notable editor.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:14, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep There are enough articles in Bookseller and other trade press referring to her as the representative buying a manuscript or similar stories to suggest meeting GNG: [10], [11], [12], [13], [14]. Although, with the exception of the last article which is already cited in our article, none of these are significantly about this person, they are significant-enough reflections of her notable role in the publishing industry to convince me that GNG has been minimally met. I know that's not the most ringing endorsement but WP:N doesn't demand more that that. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:29, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Multiple articles published independently of both the subject and each other in the same major industry journal are not what I'd classify as "one mention of the same source." If I cited five articles about different aspects of John F Kennedy's presidency in Time, would that count as "one source"? Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 20:23, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was deleted as G5. (non-admin closure) —  HELLKNOWZ   ▎TALK 09:47, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Madan Gowri

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Fails WP:GNG ChunnuBhai (talk) 16:37, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Full Metal Panic. Eddie891 Talk Work 15:25, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Retsu Tateo

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Not notable. Investigatory (talk) 06:58, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Spartaz Humbug! 15:27, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fix8

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Fails WP:GNG. Recreated immediately after PROD deletion. W42 22:29, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Clarification
Hello everyone,

for several days I was creating a draft of the article named "Fix8". I noticed that the existing page was referencing a non-existing company
and the link to the company website was pointing to a completely unrelated product.
So I asked for the old page to be deleted.
After a week, the page was gone, so I moved the already finished draft content into the now available page for a new article to be created.
Here is the original draft I created:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Fix8_(software)
I hope I didn't do anything wrong.Nemase (talk) 23:03, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Nemase:You didn't do anything wrong, I'm just concerned that the subject fails our General notability guideline. There need to be multiple reliable sources that provide significant coverage about Fix8 for an article to exist. I don't think that any of the sources in the article currently meet this criteria and I was unable to find any on a cursory search. If you can show that this subject meets that criteria, the article will be kept. W42 23:11, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Winner 42:I added three more references from press releases regarding the Fix8.
I would also like to point out something I heard from one advocate of free and open software who said that it is quite common for open source projects not to have good references because open source projects are not end user scenarios.
Take for instance a number of existing wikipedia articles about other open source projects:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickFIX
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normaliz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waarp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padre_(software) Nemase (talk) 10:25, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Keep hi everyone ... I am the creator of the article and I would like to repeat that open source projects often don't have the same degree of available references as for instance popular culture or science articles (again, see the examples above). Nevertheless, the subject of this article (Fix8) is well known within the fintech open source community and is well established with many users over the years. The added references should confirm that fact. Nemase (talk) 14:04, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Does not meet our notability standard. Anybody who needs a FIX decoder can search for it on GitHub/Google. --Salimfadhley (talk) 21:00, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Salimfadhley: as it happens I created a draft for another open source project article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:FastFlow) that I submitted for a review and you declined that submission within 3 minutes (20:57 -- 21:00) from posting the above delete mark. You stated the same concerns about both articles. If you would be willing to spend more than 3 minutes of your time, would you be so kind to take a look at (for what I see as an iconic and unquestionable free and open source project):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMake
and let me know how is the notability of such an accepted article different from what I am trying to submit? I do not wish to question your methods in evaluating article submissions, but I would really appreciate if you could give us more substantial argument Nemase (talk) 00:59, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The standard I am trying to apply is WP:NSOFT - we need significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. It looks like there has been slightly more coverage of CMake than Fix8, but I would say that the CMake article is borderline in terms of notability. If you have any more questions, I would be happy to discuss via IRC chat. I'm online most of the time. --Salimfadhley (talk) 08:17, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - @Salimfadhley: thank you for your quick reply, I do really appreciate it ... and also thank you so much for confirming my above argument. If CMake article is borderline in terms of notability and we are talking about a tool that is like water to every C++ programmer (they either actively use it or at least they are aware of it), then imagine how difficult (I would say definitely impossible) it is to satisfy the WP:NSOFT as you see it. My point is, as I mentioned above, that free and open source articles should merit some leniency when it comes to notability as you interpret it. Otherwise, one can immediately start removing about 95% of existing free and open source articles. Also, thank you for your IRC offer, but this discussion board should be the right and proper place to resolve the issue, where I wish other people would also join this discussion. Nemase (talk) 13:19, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note here is the author again ... I just want to clarify that I am trying to propose several articles regarding free and open source projects because this is the area where I am comfortable writing about. I started with articles about core projects that I used over the years and am currently using on daily basis and feel that they should have a place on wikipedia. Fix8 was the first one, but I also created another one about FastFlow (link above) and I tried to go with it through AfC, but Salimfadhley marked both of them for deletion in one very fast swipe with (see above) in my opinion very poor arguments (btw. calling Fix8 or QuickFIX a simple FIX decoder is like saying that bicycle is a device with round objects). It is quite obvious that none of the editors took a look at the updated references I provided for both articles. I already prepared material for a third article about tailwind css library and wanted to make a draft that will go through AfC, but after this I have to say that I am deeply discouraged. Just to make clear, Fix8 was started by an Australian and a Russian, FastFlow is a project that grew from two Italian universities and tailwind css was started in Canada. I live and work in Vienna, Austria. I would also like to raise my concerns about competence of Salimfadhley in evaluating both of those articles. I sincerely think his work is very superficial and simply sloppy (his comments about CMake prove that beyond any doubt). Since it looks like this debate is soon to end, I would just like to politely ask the following editors, @Salimfadhley:, @KartikeyaS343: and @1292simon: to give us at least one example of recently accepted article about free and open source software that successfully went through AfC. I hope I am not asking for too much. Thank you for your time, even if it was just 3 minutes. And also, thank you @Footlessmouse: for what it looks like, the only constructive suggestion in this discussion.Nemase (talk) 00:19, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Nemase: Having read your above comment, let me add a few things to my previous comment. 1) Although you have said lots in this discussion, you refuse to engage the problem of the article: namely that it violates Wikipedia's (admittedly high) standards for notability. What we are looking for is coverage in reliable (i.e. reputable) and independent sources. Now, you keep referring to those sources you added in this edit. Two of them ([15] and [16]) about the subject's relationship with Saxo Bank. The other one is about them teaming up with Diamond Circle. Press releases are not considered independent sources on Wikipedia (see WP:NIS. So, your repeated mention of these sources does not show anything with regard to notability. 2) You point out that there are other articles about similar subjects on Wikipedia. While this is true, arguments like this are not very useful in a deletion discussion. Each article is to be assessed on its own merits and many articles have made it onto this project without meeting the guidelines. In an ideal world, each of them would have their own deletion discussion. But since we are discussing this particular article, saying things like "but you guys also admitted x article" is not particularly constructive (see WP:WHATABOUTX for details). 3) Speaking of non-constructive comments: You allege that Salimfadhley, 1292simon and myself are not constructive. We are all here in good faith, so please cut this kind of stuff. Allow me to say that your failure to actually engage in discussing the key question of notability might by some be seen as rather unconstructive. 4) Lastly, I understand that you feel that more leniency and leeway is needed for subjects such as this one. Perhaps you are right but this AfD is not the place to advance these ideas. What we try and do here is to consult Wikipedia's guidelines of which verifiably and notability are quite central and to determine whether a subject meets these guidelines as they are. With the sources that have been presented so far, Fix8 does not meet these guidelines. Modussiccandi (talk) 10:39, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Modussiccandi: Thank you for your elaborate and constructive comment. I have to say that I agree with everything you said and I really wish this appeared sooner. I would like to apologize to everyone (and especially to Salimfadhley) for my non-constructive comments and mud throwing. I really feel ashamed I did that and the only (not really good excuse) is that I do hope you understand the frustration I felt which I described above. I do understand you are all here in good faith and in the name of that good faith I would like to ask one last thing from any of the editors reading or commenting: can any of you recommend a single article about free and open source software that recently went through AfC and was accepted? I promise I won't comment on that, I would just like to have it as a future reference and I think it would also greatly help other editors reading this. Saying that, I do understand if you are unwilling to provide such example after this exchange. Once again, thank you for your time . Nemase (talk) 13:33, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Spartaz Humbug! 15:29, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Chalwa

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I don't believe this place exists. There are no GPS coordinates. It is not listed in the 2014 Moroccan census (XLS file). There is one source, a UN map. On Google Maps, neither the settlement nor the road it is on on that map exist. Bing Maps has nothing. OpenStreetMap has nothing. There are no sources other than the one map that attest to the existence of the city. Other small towns in Western Sahara, such as Jdiriya (population 248), show up on all these sources. power~enwiki (π, ν) 06:22, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Comment So, if you take the road south East from Boujdour here you end up at a little settlement here that looks to be about where Chalwa should be. I'm not saying that's what it is, but it's likely there. I found a brief sentence somewhere else on Wikipedia that said there was a conflict over it and that looks like the type of place there would be a conflict over. Given that it's next to a small water body in the middle of know where. I could see it being strategically important to some Saharan tribe. If that's not it though, I'm almost certain it's somewhere in that area. Given the lines from Boujdour and Galtat Zemmour Zabyra to where it should be and where they would intersect. --Adamant1 (talk) 07:17, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, if you take the barely visible road from that place directly south east you end up here. Which looks way more promising. --Adamant1 (talk) 07:21, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's about where Aridal is on the UN map. This is very close to the UN map location, though. Grutness...wha? 13:56, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It would make some sense that this (and Aridal) is a (possibly-abandoned) military base. I'd like a bit clearer evidence before withdrawing the AFD though. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:21, 28 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Keep - it it's WP:V, then an inhabited place is almost always kept. Bearian (talk) 20:02, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete Absolutely nothing has improved about this since the last discussion, and I note that Aridal was deleted even though it appears on the same map: the inconsistencies were just irreconcilable. The UN map has proven to be just not good enough as a source, especially given the trouble we are having even locating it. Dots on maps do not establish notability. Mangoe (talk) 02:33, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete After looking into it I don't think there's any way to tell which dot on the map it actually is. As what's available is low quality. There's really no way to know if it's an inhabited place or not if we can't even find anything about it. So, I'm not sure what guideline it would be kept based on. --Adamant1 (talk) 02:38, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, included on multiple maps in different published years by the United Nations:
  1. Department of Field Support, Cartographic Section (February 2009), Map No. 3691 Rev. 58 United Nations (PDF), archived from the original (PDF) on 10 February 2018, retrieved 15 October 2020 {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |agency= ignored (help)
  2. Department of Field Support, Cartographic Section (13 April 2009), Map No. 3691 Rev. 59 United Nations (PDF), archived from the original (PDF) on 15 October 2020, retrieved 15 October 2020 {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |agency= ignored (help)
  3. Department of Field Support, Cartographic Section (October 2012), Map No. 3175 Rev. 4 United Nations (PDF), archived from the original (PDF) on 13 October 2020, retrieved 15 October 2020 {{citation}}: Unknown parameter |agency= ignored (help)
Thank you, Right cite (talk) 03:54, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Let's take a step back here. What is this place? A settled location would be included in the census and on general-use maps. Chalwa isn't. What we have is a dot on successive editions of a United Nations map. No one seems to know what that dot means, or even where it is. How we can verify a subject when we have no sources describing it? Mackensen (talk) 04:49, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. It isn't clear which articles editors wish draftified; anyone wishing to work on any of these in draftspace should contact me on my talk page, and I will provide draftspace copies. Vanamonde (Talk) 23:57, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Masters West Region Track and Field Championship

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Masters West Region Track and Field Championship (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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Article is not really about the championship, it's a list of meets, and some other content of unclear relevance. There are a number of other articles by the same editor with essentially copied text:

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The result was delete. Fenix down (talk) 19:26, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jacques Hirrle

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Jacques Hirrle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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I can't find any evidence that he meets WP:BIO. Listed in databases, but no sources which are actually about him. Fram (talk) 14:28, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe that policy applies to referees Spiderone 17:09, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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For referees their officiated international match (matches) is notability item for them even though friendly match. Sol i think this article has no ane reason for delete.... Almgerdeu (talk) 01:47, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What is your important match?? for players to play in official match (even friendly) is enough for notability. Jacques Hirrle officiated 4 official friendly matches. Is not enough? Or why is enough for football player (s) but not for referee??? Walwal20 talk ▾ contribs Spiderone Almgerdeu (talk) 18:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's not about how many matches he has refereed. It's about whether he is the subject of significant coverage from reliable secondary sources Spiderone 21:08, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
so i removed PROD...thanks all of you. Almgerdeu (talk) 08:04, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
it's generally considered best practice not to remove an AfD until the discussion has concluded Spiderone 09:49, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There are many, a lot, more more articles as we talked...this article have sources and created and edited correctly (i had mistakes that some users informed me, before)....so i corrected all of them....i did not understand that why this article must delete......Almgerdeu (talk) 15:44, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
All the sources provided are just routine entries in database websites. There isn't any evidence that Hirrle has received significant coverage. If such sources can be found, please do link them in the article and I am happy to change my vote. Spiderone 16:39, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:28, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Prakash Sardar

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Prakash Sardar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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I fail to see how being the shortest person in x country makes an individual notable, especially when there is no significant coverage. Perhaps the name can be added on List of shortest people or something but I see no evidence this person is notable enough for a standalone article. Praxidicae (talk) 13:44, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:07, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Grietje Veenstra

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Grietje Veenstra (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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Fails WP:NSPORTS. A sportsperson who won some local competitions, with a very local source (regional pubisher). I couldn't find any other sources, she will be included in some old newspapers (just like every somewhat succesful local sportsperson is included in local and regional newspapers), but seems to lack the required coverage to meet NSPORTS. Fram (talk) 13:31, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Keep Meets GNG. From the book “Vrouwen in de Hardrijdersbaan” (Could be translated as: Women in speed skating). Not a regional source, but a national book publication. This book describes the main Dutch women who made speed skating history. Speed skating is the second largest sport in the Netherlands with a rich history. A section of two pages in this book is dedicated to her. In this book is she described as one of the main women speed skaters in her era. These “local competitions” as the nominator names is, were the highest level speed skating competitions in that era. These competitions, mainly in Friesland were published across the Netherlands and not only in Frisian media. (For many more speed skaters that otherwise could be nominated for deletion for the same reason see Template:Kortebaan speed skaters (women)). SportsOlympic (talk) 14:15, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Note This is the book SportsOlympic (talk) 14:24, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Note 2 Meets NSports#Basic criterea. SportsOlympic (talk) 14:29, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Nsports:Basic criteria requires multiple non-trivial sources, so even if one does accept that book as one good enough source, she still doesn't meet the criteria. Inote that e.g. here, a source you use for many of the others, she only gets a passing mention, nothing more. Being the second most popular sport in a country doesn't give one unlimited entries: cycling was (and is) hugely popular in Belgium, but many amateur cyclists winning local races in 1890 or so will never get articles as they aren't notable either, even though the local and regional newspapers will have produced race reviews. Basically, you'll need more indepth sources for her (and for other similar articles) to get the subjects to meet NSPORTS. Fram (talk) 15:19, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You’re showing another book. The book is not extensively about that period; and more research has been done later on. The book I used for this article is writing more in dept about the several skaters; that’s the reason I added this skater. Compared to the Belgian cyclist; this is the history of Dutch kortebaanschaatsen, popular in that era. That’s why there are many books about these persons. And many skaters in that book are described only in a few sentences (I think not enough to have an article about them). I’m thinking of adding them to a list. SportsOlympic (talk) 16:46, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Fails WP:BASIC and WP:GNG as there is very little coverage on her; one non-notable book about women in speed skating certainly isn't enough. Fails WP:SPORTSBASIC too, as she has not participated in a major competition. Walwal20 talk ▾ contribs 16:47, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Walwal20:, it would help to explain your statements. Can you tell why it fails all you mention? SportsOlympic (talk) 20:27, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    SportsOlympic I expanded it. Unfortunately, since the subject is from years far in the past, we won't have many sources, but nothing can be done about that. We cannot state that she was "main women speed skaters in her era" based on a single source. It could be just WP:PUFF, especially in a book about speed skating, and specially in a book about women in particular. Walwal20 talk ▾ contribs 00:50, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The article overstates the importance of Grietje Veenstra in 'Vrouwen in de Hardrijdersbaan'. In the article, it says "In the Dutch book 'Vrouwen in de Hardrijdersbaan', about the Dutch women’s speed skating history, Veenstra is described as one of the main speed skaters in her era." The book lists important skaters such as Lutske Wester and their contemporaries, women who also won prizes in competitions. Veenstra belongs to the latter category. Her single paragraph starts with the brief intro "Een figuur van iets groter formaat kwam enkele jaren later." Translating: A figure of slightly greater format came a few years later. She receives one paragraph of 5 sentences in a chapter "Contemporaries". Slightly greater than whom? Slightly greater than Trijntje Kingma who correctly did not receive an article. By the weight given in the book, Grietje Veenstra should not have one either. Correspondingly there are just listings in Delpher. While the effort to create articles about sportswomen in the 19th and early 20th century is much appreciated (!), a book like 'Vrouwen in de Hardrijdersbaan' should not be scraped to the last person mentioned. gidonb (talk) 09:48, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    This is implicit but I'll make it explicit. Having looked into it, I do accept the book as a valid source. Nothing wrong with the publisher either. gidonb (talk) 10:18, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Sorry, SportsOlympic, I can't find anything to help establish notability for this person. Drmies (talk) 21:50, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:17, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sahir Hashmi Adeeb

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I truly cannot find anything in reliable sources about this poet, who I believe fails WP:NAUTHOR and WP:BASIC. But, from the description in the article, he sounds potentially notable, so perhaps I'm missing something. Prior AfD is not helpful with respect to sourcing. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 03:09, 25 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Sandstein 12:27, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Charlevoix Building

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The article does not meet GNG or NBUILD. Souces in article are blogs. BEFORE showed no RS that have direct and in-depth SIGCOV about the subject. Article itself has no claim of notability.   // Timothy :: talk  00:16, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Keep. Architecturally significant historic building, listed on the National Register of Historic Places as a contributing building in a historic district. We have many articles on contributing buildings that are not separately listed, as here, but for which there is significant info. The NRHP nomination document linked by Coolabahapple above does indeed include a great amount of info about the building, including that it deemed architecturally significant for having the first "marquis" in Detroit, in style of ones in New York City and elsewhere. There is more than enough material for a good "Start"-level article at least, and too much for merger into the historic district article IMO. Probably local historical society and/or local main library have photos and other materials about this building; it would certainly have been written about in Detroit newspapers at time of its construction and also off and on during the years. The story of its destruction is also significant and worth telling, although the nominator and Coolabahapple don't like the blog-like sources which were used (but probably are accurate in what they say, only have to omit some subjective spin). Also its architect William S. Joy (currently a redlink) appears to be notable for a Wikipedia article also (search on "William S. Joy" architect yields a portrait photo of him held by a Corona (California?) library, and info about a number of buildings he designed. The NRHP doc provides birthdate and some more. About the building, tag it for improvement if you want to punish the world somehow, but this is certainly a valid topic and article, so "Keep". --Doncram (talk) 19:22, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Comment: There are no sources that show this is an architecturally significant historic building. It is not listed on the National Register of Historic Places. Their is nothing notable about its destruction or its history. It does not meet GNG or NBUILDING.   // Timothy :: talk  11:40, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:07, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mississippi, Kentucky

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Mississippi, Kentucky (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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The claim of a community being here appears to be incorrect, as this location was actually a Baptist Church with a cemetery. GNIS is sourced to Rennick, but his notes for Carlisle County and his index don't mention a Mississippi in Carlisle County. Following the coordinates takes me to a location of Rennick's annotated topographic map labeled Mississippi Church, with "Bap." (apparently Baptist) handwritten next to it. I can only go as far back as 1939 with the topographic maps, but all call it Mississippi Church and show the church and an apparently associated cemetery. Searching for "Mississippi, Carlisle County, Kentucky" brings up nothing about this supposed place. Next, I searched for "Mississippi Church, Carlisle County, Kentucky" and found this, which states that someone was buried at a Mississippi Church, which is implied to have an address in nearby Arlington. Looking for it under Mississippi Baptist Church brings up this. And someboy left the church money in her will in the early 20th century. Further WP:BEFORE searching only brings up directory listings (suggesting a Bardwell address) and few mentions that someone was a member of the church. I have been unable to find evidence that this was anything other than a church, so it fails WP:GEOLAND. What I can find does not indicate a WP:GNG pass either. Wikipedia is WP:NOTDIRECTORY of isolated churches who do not meet WP:GNG, so deletion looks like the best call, since List of churches in Carlisle County, Kentucky would almost certainly fail WP:LISTN and WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Hog Farm Bacon 17:47, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. North America1000 13:45, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Geveden, Kentucky

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This was a school, not a community (also, the name appears to be wrong). The only mention of Geveden in Rennick's Carlisle County book is someone's last name. The only Geveden mentioned in his index is a stream in Morgan County, on the other side of the state. The 1939 topographic map shows a "Cherry Geveden School", but other topos show nothing. Rennick's annotated topo has "Geveden N" handwritten at the site, but with no indication as to what it was. Searching for this place under the names Geveden and Geveden School bring up nothing except people with this last name, as the Gevedens appear to have been prominent in local law and politics. However, I did find this, calling it Cherry-Geveden School. Searching for Chery-Geveden School only yields me the above mention, and two more similar listings of the same sort. This place fails WP:GEOLAND, WP:NSCHOOL, and WP:GNG. Hog Farm Bacon 18:03, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Brainiac (character). ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:10, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Colu

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I prodded it with the following rationale: "The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) requirement. WP:BEFORE did not reveal any significant coverage on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar." It was deprodded by User:Andrew Davidson with no meaningful rationale (despite the fact that I explicitly asked for one in the PROD). Another fictional location whose content is 100% WP:FANCRUFT (plot summary) and 0% real world significance. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:29, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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    • Seriously? The first source doesn't even mention the planet, just its inhabitants, in a single sentence: "She ended up joining the Big Brain, the hive mind of Coluans". That's a "doscussion of Colu" for you? Second source mentions the planet twice in passing purely in a plot summary fashion: "Back in Colu, Seg and Adam find the place where the ancient Coluans made Brainiac. ... While all that’s happening in Colu, something’s starting to stir up in Krypton." Double fail, and if those are the best sources out there, this is a good indicator this needs a speedy delete.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 00:33, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Your tone is off-putting to me. I thought maybe you should know that, but perhaps you already knew. This project is a volunteer operation. I'm not paid to take seriously your interjection of "Seriously?" and your accusation that I have somehow "double failed" in my effort to participate in a helpful way. - AppleBsTime (talk) 15:25, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry, but I am also not paid for volunteering here, and you have just wasted my - and others - time - again. You cited bad sources. I pointed it out. End of story. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:50, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:16, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Shanghalla

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Shanghalla (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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I prodded it with the following rationale: "The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) requirement. WP:BEFORE did not reveal any significant coverage on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar." It was deprodded by User:Andrew Davidson with no meaningful rationale (despite the fact that I explicitly asked for one in the PROD). So let's see. This is both 100% unreferenced and has zero claims of significance. Frankly, this is a reason why should have speedy deletion category for WP:FANCRUFT, which this is a classic example of - and why some people should be topic banned from deprodding. Anyway, I kindly suggest voting 'speedy delete' on this travesty and moving on, sigh. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:24, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete- unsourced fancruft written completely in an in-universe style. The title might be useful as a redirect to some List of Fictional Locations article or other, but the content is hopeless and none of it would be suitable to merge anywhere. Reyk YO! 14:44, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - The current article is completely unsourced, and is barely about the actual location - most of the content here is just a list of how Legion members died. Searching for additional sources actually turns up very little - its mentioned in plot summaries of Legion stories, but that's it. With no actual discussion or indication of notability in reliable, secondary sources, it fails the WP:GNG. Rorshacma (talk) 16:10, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as per nom. William Harris (talk) 23:24, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom, and fully agree that deprodder was doing his usual thing of holding the entire PROD process hostage to what appears to be petulance. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 16:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Per nom. There is no discernible reason why this would ever be notable enough for a standalone article for all but the newest and most inexperienced Wikipedia editors which suggests a serious WP:CIR issue on the part of Andrew Davidson removing the PROD.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 21:56, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Council (comics)

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The Council (comics) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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I prodded it with the following rationale: "The coverage (references, external links, etc.) does not seem sufficient to justify this article passing Wikipedia:General notability guideline and the more detailed Wikipedia:Notability (fiction) requirement. WP:BEFORE did not reveal any significant coverage on Gnews, Gbooks or Gscholar." It was deprodded by User:Andrew Davidson with no meaningful rationale (despite the fact that I explicitly asked for one in the PROD). Considering the very sorry state of this article, there is really nothing else I can say here instead of shaking my head again at this WP:POINTless waste of time. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:19, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Sandstein 09:51, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cheminformatics toolkits

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Cheminformatics toolkits (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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Advertising, a list of all most all non-notable toolkits (notable as defined as having its own article) The Banner talk 14:10, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Keep notable is not defined by having its own article (WP:LISTN. Christian75 (talk) 09:48, 2 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep for now The notes section indicates some of the entries are notable enough to be listed (in agreement with @Christian75 on that one). However, notability was only established by that means on a few of them. The article needs to fill out the notes section to other publications which discuss these toolkits as a means of establishing the notability of each entry. Ones with no references are not notable and should be deleted, IMO.Footlessmouse (talk) 22:41, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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See also Talk:Cheminformatics_toolkits#"notable" for a note on the unacceptable editing of the nominator. Eissink (talk) 14:26, 15 October 2020 (UTC).[reply]
Ah, here we see the classic action of Eissink. If he does not get what he wants, he start throwing personal attacks. In fact, I was anticipating the keeping of the article and comply to the wishes of Paul Carpenter and others (a wish you supported): Keep and improve, non notable list members can be removed. But then it should be clear that the listed items must be notable. The Banner talk 14:43, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You don't make the listed items notable by adding "notable" to the definition. If you don't understand that, it is no surprise that you perceive opposition to your edit as a personal attack. Eissink (talk) 16:00, 15 October 2020 (UTC).[reply]
Ever heard of a selection criterion? The Banner talk 19:06, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you have found a source that describes and defines 'notability' as a selection criterion for cheminformatics toolkits, you would need to add that source (and preferably the definition also) to the article. It would perhaps explain why you redlinked all existing items on the list., although it would also bring the question as to why you decide to maintain your initial viewpoint that those toolkits are "all most all non-notable" and indeed to why you did not change your opinion on the deletion request as such, since your entire argument would then be gone. [striking these lines, after edit conflict, since user worded the intention to comply. So please now provide us your source. Eissink (talk) 21:52, 15 October 2020 (UTC).[reply]
The linking was to give an insight of how many articles had actually an article (not too many). And no, I do not have to give a source of the notability as a selection criterion. It is widely used as such. The Banner talk 22:24, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Frankly, it still seems to me that you confuse the notability of the list items with the definition of the subject, which would of course be shameful beyond words – especially given your stubborn reverts of my reasoned undoing – because it would show a lack of knowledge of even the very basics of logic (and thus question the more why, for instance, you keep wanting to delete articles on subjects that you don't master). But maybe I'm wrong, which you can easily show by providing us a source that says that "notability" is an essential, or at least reasonable part of the definition of cheminformatics toolkits. If you cannot do so, I will feel free to remove the word 'notable' again, to avoid a trip to ANI. Eissink (talk) 22:44, 15 October 2020 (UTC).[reply]
No, your edit war was based on nothing. And I stop playing your games, as you clearly are unable to distinguish between notability of a subject and notability as a selection criterion of a list. Bye. The Banner talk 08:08, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed the word. Do yourself a favor and don't revert. Eissink (talk) 11:07, 16 October 2020 (UTC).[reply]
I have reinstated the selection criterion. Stop editwarring. The Banner talk 11:42, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I find it hard to believe this is really happening. Eissink (talk) 12:03, 16 October 2020 (UTC).[reply]
I am not surprised that you do not understand the concept of a selection criterion and started crying on WP:AN/I. The Banner talk 17:51, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Per additional sourcing added since nomination meeting WP:V and GNG. (commonly known around here as HEY) 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:10, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Olympic Airways Flight 411

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Not notable incident. The article isn't referenced and Aviation Safety Network doesn't have an entry for it. Is it a hoax? ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 22:21, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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I'm not sure if I agree with you that this article does not meet WP:GEOSCOPE. The guideline states that if an event has had a significant impact over a wide region, domain, or widespread social group, it may be notable enough for inclusion. The fact that this event seems to be covered regularly at the national level in Greece makes it seem like it has had a long-term significant impact over there. I also fail to see how this article violates WP:NOTNEWS. I'm pretty sure that WP:NOTNEWS only applies to breaking news, original reporting, single events, and routune reporting. Again, the fact that this event has repeatedly received significant coverage over the years makes it seem like WP:NOTNEWS doesn't apply. Scorpions13256 (talk) 19:16, 7 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete have to be consistent with notability for aircraft incidents where there is no loss nor harm to human life. WP:ROTM aircraft incident. -- Whiteguru (talk) 13:10, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    @Whiteguru: An aircraft incident is notable only if there is great loss of human life ? What about an exceptional case (like this is supposed to be according to the Greek sources) that the captain faced a very dangerous situation and calmly managed to save the lives of the passengers, and perhaps of even more people, those of the residents of the city area that the plane would have otherwise chashed ? ǁǁǁ ǁ Chalk19 (talk) 13:35, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:08, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

International Open Institute

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Poorly sourced promotional article about non-notable unregistered private 'university'. Fails WP:GNG / WP:ORG and WP:V. Proposing AfD after speedy deletion request was objected to by the creating editor. Possibly re-creation of previously deleted article(s). -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:28, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge and redirect. Zoglophie (talk) 07:08, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2020 Denmark Masters

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Tournament cancelled by BWF Zoglophie (talk) 10:09, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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@Zoglophie: I would agree that this is non-controversial so I would have no problem with closing this and redirecting Spiderone 06:41, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:07, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DigitalRadioTracker (DRT)

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DigitalRadioTracker (DRT) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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No evidence of any notability. Plenty of refs but many are simply passing mentions and others are marketing blogs etc. Nothing of substance and certainly not multiple refs from reliable and independent sources. Searches reveal more of the same. Fails WP:GNG  Velella  Velella Talk   09:21, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:07, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Schelp

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    Michael Schelp (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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    Appears to concern a television executive. The only 2 existing references only mention subject in passing. As per WP:BEFORE I've looked around and there doesn't seem to be any substantive coverage of the subject at all. Fails WP:GNG as far as I can tell. ƒin (talk) 09:16, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was speedy delete by Materialscientist. (non-admin closure) Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:21, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    [edit]
    Naveen mavi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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    Fails WP:GNG and WP:POLITICIAN Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 07:12, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was keep. Sandstein 14:41, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Dysgenics

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    I am nominating this page for deletion on behalf of WhatIsAPoggers per discussion on the user talk page, as the user failed to nominate this page for an AfD discussion. I myself am neutral on deletion (though I did deprod this page earlier). JavaHurricane 06:39, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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    • Pasting Poggers' reasoning from the PROD: Article gives undue weight to pseudoscientific eugenicists such as Richard Lynn. It's not clear why this deserves its own article, as dysgenics has no evidence of being a widely accepted term outside of eugenicist circles. In addition, the weak amount of content here could be fit under a dysgenics tab in the article discussing eugenics. Lastly, this page is also scarcely edited and visited as evidenced by its edit history, which takes mere moments to go back to 2018 and beyond. The criteria for deletion I am citing are: G3 of speedy deletion, A7 citing the unnecessary state of dysgenics being its own article as opposed to a subpage in the eugenics article, as well as #5, #6, and #8 on the deletion policy owing to the reliance on largely one pseudoscientific source for information, the lack of established notability independent of eugenicist sources, and lack of reason to be independent from the eugenics article. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 07:00, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Keep 4,500 views a month, the subject appears covered in numerous scientific journals. Sure the article could use some fixing for POV, but deletion is not cleanup. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 07:04, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Speedy Keep The prod was improper as the topic has been previously kept at AfD. The topic is clearly notable – for example, here's an entire book on the subject. There seems to be a history of disruption here and so we should shut this down quickly. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:31, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Strong keep a glancing search yielded enough information for a stand-alone article as well as establishing notability. Nom's PROD rationale is clearly invalid, and the nom should, in my opinion, read WP:NOTCLEANUP. JavaHurricane 10:06, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]


    • Delete I would like to reopen the discussion for deletion. I previously have suggested this be deleted via a proposal for deletion, however as this was rejected I would like to appeal with a discussion here. I would like to outline my reasons as follows, as well as give a brief response to the concerns listed as to why the criteria I suggested may apply.
    G3 - While there was disagreement owing to G3 as this article is said to not be a hoax, I would like to disagree on that subject. Specifically, dysgenics is not a widely accepted area in science; its only modern discussion, viewing Google Scholar, as an independent concept is through Richard Lynn and those affiliated with him, with prior discussion being over 80 years old. Its other usages on the web are merely as a word to describe genetic deterioration and not as an independent concept; as Wikipedia is not a dictionary, there is no need to implement an article on an idea that is solely promoted by those widely regarded among scientific authorities as pseudoscientific, and the creation of an article lends the idea a false sense of credibility as a concept.
    A7 - The responder suggested I did not read the criteria, and while I have, I do understand the reason for concern. I cited it as the article lacks clear importance, however I can understand the reason for concern as it is not clear that A7 can apply to philosophical or scientific ideas, especially those in pseudoscience. I do accept that A7 may not apply to the article, however I would nonetheless like to bring up a discussion of whether the article warrants being its own piece independnet of a subcategory of the eugenics article, or something perhaps similar. I do not believe it meets the criteria, as it is not a widely recognized term in the sciences. There is no indication of any scholarly discussion of it as a term or concept, even scientifically, beyond that of Richard Lynn and his company, and a handful of studies responding to the concept of genetic deterioration at large in the field of IQ research. Given the low scope, there is little need for this to be an article; one can include the brief discussion of the concept of dysgenics in the eugenics article, and a brief discussion of the rebuttal in other discussions of IQ & fertility on Wikipedia. Including them together in one article is thus unnecessary.
    I would also like to cite #5, #6, and #8 on the deletion policy. This is due to the fact that the article almost exclusively lies on Richard Lynn for information on dysgenics as an applied concept, and as detailed prior attempts to pull up additional information largely only reveal those affiliated with him discussing the concept. In the broader scientific and specifically genetic community, this is not discussed nor is there evidence that it is treated seriously as an idea. This would additionally make sense, owing to the fact that genetic changes are exclusively brought about by changes in fitness, or what is most successful at reproduction, and as such there is no such thing as 'bad genes' or those that can be said to be undesirable, merely those that are most adaptive to a given environment.
    To cite the concerns listed specifically, the citations on Google Scholar immediately pull up Richard Lynn's book, which is the only one on the topic. Richard Lynn is a noted eugenicist and pseudoscientist who is repeatedly bashed for his poor methodology and appeals to scientific racism to justify his white nationalist political views. This book is no exception, as the concept is only discussed prior by other eugenicists. The further evidence for this is apparent on Scholar, as the next citation is William Shockley, yet another noted eugenicist, in an article in which he uses it as a shorthand for retogenesis of evolution. After that, there is the Nunes article which is cited; this article can be said to be the only citation independent from usage among eugenicists, with the next couple independent citations being of reviews of Lynn's book. Following that is a biology discussion from 1985 with 4 citations that uses it merely as a metaphor and does not discuss the concept. Following that is an article by Bardis 1974 with no citations that provides a definition of dysgenics. After that is a PDF to a far right book released in 2019 with no citations by Michael Stark The pages following have no citations and are largely just reviews of Lynn's book, obscure eugenics papers from the early 20th century mentioning it offhandedly, obscure nonacademic articles and other works by Stark, almost none of which have citations. The most cited thing mentioning eugenics, save for Lynn's book, is this book chapter (https://www.google.com/books/edition/Shaping_the_American_Educational_State_1/2jMQAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=dysgenics) which only utilizes it as a name in relation to discussions of racism, rather than discussing the concept in of itself.
    I think it can be said, then, that there is no substantiative discussion of it in the modern era that is independent of Richard Lynn, with the vast majority of pages mentioning it being in relation to Lynn's works or that of other far right ideologues; this was all derived from only the first few pages of Google Scholar, and indicates how utilizing just a glance into the subject is inadequate as Lynn's work inflates the citation count for areas actually discussing the subject in of itself rather than using it as a shorthand or definitional term. There is little need to have an independent article on the subject, then, especially since the content here can be easily usurped under the Richard Lynn article or that of others as previously mentioned. WhatIsAPoggers (talk) 13:38, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • The concept long predates Lynn. Eminent people like Huxley and Inge were writing about this before Lynn was born. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:34, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • The concept of dysgenics was largely obscure and solely definitional before Lynn. As he is the sole one promoting this currently, and as this concept lacks much significance beyond him, I would like to support the merge proposal as well, given what I originally detailed. WhatIsAPoggers (talk) 00:35, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was delete. There is consensus to not keep this article. There is no consensus about whether a dab page is needed at this title. So everybody is free to create one, and others can then contest that at XfD if they want to. Sandstein 14:38, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Winklevoss twins

    [edit]
    Winklevoss twins (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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    The twins are notable, and hence they have their own, longer and more developed articles: Cameron Winklevoss and Tyler Winklevoss. This page should be a disambig, its current de facto WP:POVFORK existence is not helpful to the readers. There was a RfC on the article's talk page a few years back which seemed to have a majority for merging the two articles on individuals into the twins article, but this was never done, and the articles on each individual have grown since and are B-class, but this POVFORK remains a start-class. Pinging participants of that RfC: User:BDD (op), User:Dezastru, User:Abhayakara , User:Kaldari , User:Ayzmo and User:Dinovettri. I think it is better two have articles about each person, as they seem to be individually notable per NBIO, with the article here becoming a disambig (there is probably little if anything worth merging). Either way, we don't need three articles about two individuals. Thoughts? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:26, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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    I am guessing this is just melodramatic language, which Piotrus seems to have a habit of using with the (I hope false) belief that it improves the odds of his various calls for the deletion of articles. - AppleBsTime (talk) 16:32, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Disambiguate: Per reasons above and nominator. The twins are both notable on their own. ASTIG😎 (ICE T • ICE CUBE) 16:00, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Keep I see no benefit to actual deletion, and in practice, the current article works just fine to disambiguate, with prominent links to each twin's individual article. A true disambiguation page is nonsensical: there aren't two people (or other topics) each referred to as "Winklevoss twins", just the twins themselves. --BDD (talk) 18:00, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was delete. I'm not at this time creating redirects because most of these women have participated in several beauty pageants, which means that editors interested in such topics should decide which if any event these articles should redirect to. They may request undeletion via WP:REFUND as needed if any content is to be merged to the redirect targets. Sandstein 12:23, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Roxanne Allison Baeyens

    [edit]
    Roxanne Allison Baeyens (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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    The biography meets the black-letter definition of what should not be an article as spelled out at the BLP1E policy, reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event. The biography essentially notes a person who was obscure, obtained the 12-month regional title, did not obtain a more notable title, and returned to obscurity. Maintaining as a sub-stub attracts a bunch of false, promotional, or just plain unverifiable claims about the subject. ☆ Bri (talk) 01:51, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    I am also nominating the following related pages because they are similar non-notables linked from Miss International 2019, Miss Earth 2019 and Miss World 2019.

    Miss Earth 2019
    Bruna Silva (model) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) 🧦
    Riya Basnet (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Abena Appiah (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) 🧦
    Klára Vavrušková (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Thoung Mala (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) 🧦
    Maria Gabriela Batistela (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Miss World 2019
    Ophély Mézino (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Tya Janè Ramey (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) 🧦
    Elis Miele (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Nyekachi Douglas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Tajiya Eikura Sahay (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Milena Sadowska (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) 🧦
    Paola Torres (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) 🧦
    Miss International 2019
    Harriotte Lane (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) 🧦
    Betzaida Rodriguez (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) 🧦
    Meera Kakshapati (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Alejandra Vengoechea (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) 🧦
    🧦 = created by sockmaster/sockpuppet

    Additionally, in many cases, they have been substantially created by persistent sockfarms probably acting to promote the events or related media outlets (e.g. Vavrušková, edited by MissCDO2019 or Milena Sadowska, created by a sock and the edit history dominated by at least five more). ☆ Bri (talk) 01:54, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 02:03, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Beauty pageants-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 02:03, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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    Yes, the article says she is an actor but doesn't provide anything to verify that. In fact there are exactly two sources in the article and one is missosology.info web forum and the other missosology.org, both of which are unacceptable per WP:WikiProject Beauty Pageants/Sources, but I left them alone for the duration of this AfD. - Bri.public (talk) 14:43, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Delete all Usually I oppose mass deletion, but having checked all of the nominated articles I want to support the nominator. The sources in all of the articles talk only about one event - there's no more significant coverage. Less Unless (talk) 17:01, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Strong Keep for the Roxanne Allison Baeyens article which cited plethora of third party reliable sources or significant sources (45 sources). The biography did not cover the person only in the context of a single event. In fact, there are multiple reliable sources that can be found online about the subject in multiple events, multiple languages, and different years. She won the national search for the Miss Tourism Philippines with multiple reliable sources: (e.g, ABS-CBN News, Philippine Canadian Inquirer, GMA Network News. She also competed internationally and won second place in the Miss Tourism & Culture Universe and received multiple reliable sources (e.g., The Philippine Star, Manila Standard, Good News Philippines) In 2020, she obtained another notable national title, Miss Philippines Earth 2020 and received multiple reliable sources (e.g., CNN, ABS-CBN, GMA Network News, Rappler, Manila Times, The Manila Standard, Philippine Daily Inquirer, The Manila Bulletin, Philippine Star, and etc., refer to the article for the actual sources cited). The article also met WP:GNG since the subject has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article. Sources cited are reliable, independent, and coverage is significant. Also WP:BASIC states “People who meet the basic criteria (see WP:GNG) may be considered notable without meeting the additional criteria”. ---17:20, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
    Roxanne Allison Baeyens also meets the WP:ENTERTAINER since she has done multiple TV commercials such as Jack 'n jill, Axe, Nescafé among others shown in multiple nationwide television channels in the Philippines with an estimated 109,581,078 people at mid year according to 2020 UN data.---Richie Campbell (talk) 18:33, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think you've adequately explained how WP:ENTERTAINER applies to television commercials. Are you claiming that e.g. a Nescafé commercial is a "notable...other production"?? -- Bri.public (talk) 18:50, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    The subject above (Baeyens) is a model; I have cited the TV Commercial products she has done, not that WP:ENTERTAINER applies to television commercials. WP:NMODEL is part of the WP:ENTERTAINER.---Richie Campbell (talk) 00:06, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    You've lost me, because your words are the subject "meets WP:ENTERTAINER since she has done multiple TV commercials such as ... Nescafé", but then you said you are "not [asserting] that WP:ENTERTAINER applies to television commercials"; I guess I'll step back and let the closer of this debate figure it out. ☆ Bri (talk) 00:54, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was delete. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:04, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

    Sidetalk

    [edit]
    Sidetalk (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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    non-notable street comedian, no meaningful in depth coverage. Praxidicae (talk) 14:23, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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    Logs: 2020-09 ✍️ create
    Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
    Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 00:47, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Delete - A creative project that gets a write-up in a student newspaper is not yet "notable" by Wikipedia's standards. I would reconsider my vote if there were more and better sources, but I found none. Not to mention, the author of the article seems to have approached Wikipedia as "let's get past this pesky auto-confirm threshold, then pop this non-notable article into Main space". - AppleBsTime (talk) 14:49, 9 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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